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Welcome to today's episode of Stories That Stick. I am super excited today to have Dr. Jasmine Moses with me. She is an anti bias early childhood educator and she's really starting to dedicate her work towards helping caregivers and teachers think about how they can [00:01:00] raise the next generation that can be a bit more, aware and kind and forgiving in their interactions in their day to day lives.
And I'm so glad to have her here. I'm going to invite her to introduce herself and tell us a bit about who she is and what she's all about. And then we're going to dive into really thinking about how anti bias education connects with children's literature. And we'll tie in some ideas around how this can apply to your work with children as well.
So Jasmine, so nice to have you. Thanks for joining us. I
am so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me today. And hello everyone that is listening. my name is Dr. Jasmine Moses, like you heard, and I am an anti bias early childhood educator. if you are on Instagram or Facebook, you can find me over at the anti bias ECE.
as mentioned, a lot of my work is centered around, anti bias and anti racist practices within early childhood education. Really [00:02:00] trying to take a critical look at making the early childhood education system equitable for all children and their families.
and my love for early childhood runs deep. I started off as a preschool teacher, which feels now as we talked about, and as I'm talking about it right now, such a long time ago, but I really do miss it so much. I miss the children and their families and I received my undergraduate degree in early childhood.
I taught preschool for a while and then I transitioned to more of a community based role within early childhood education while I pursued my doctorate. And I'm still doing that community based role as well as Some, consultant work.
And so at the root, long story short, I love children. I love their families. I really believe in the power of early childhood education. one of the most important roles and identities that I have now is that I'm also a toddler mama. and so if possible, my passion for early childhood as.
Like, [00:03:00] grown deeper in the time that, you know, she has graced me with her presence, and has been walking this earth, and I, I say this a lot, but I know that my work now will directly, it directly impacts her world now, but it also has a direct impact to her life later, and the other lives of children around her who will be those adults later when she's an adult.
And so I'm working to build a more equitable world for them to grow up in and it's such important work and I love to talk about it. So that's why I'm here today.
That's so awesome. As you were sharing that, I suddenly started to have some memories of when I remember when I had my first and just how we, although when we're in an early childhood setting and we're working even in a preschool where we may have three year olds, we don't see it in the same way when we see it with our own children.
. And I just love seeing those. [00:04:00] Things just start to click with my own children in the way that they are making sense of the world and the way all that kind of theory and research and things that we just know inherently when we start to see it unfolding with our own children. I'll never forget like the big thing for me was when my son was trying to get a water bottle top off or on and I just remember being like, wow, watch this.
And my husband and he's like. And I'm like, no, look what he's trying to do. He's seen us do that. And he's trying to figure it out. Like we just start to like zoom in so much on those. small moments and things and I think especially with anti bias education and thinking about that so much of what I've learned unfolds is through having to witness and hear and make sense of what the children are saying and sharing because that's the only way and through their play that's the way that we're going to start to see what they have already started to [00:05:00] understand and the way that they've started to make sense of the world in addition to what biases and what stereotypes they're starting to carry out or hold within themselves.
And the way that we're going to see that is through their conversations of their play. So I imagine, you know, you always have that magnifying glass on, because I know I do as well. And it's really, different to see it with our children than it is in the classroom. So, I'd love to just make sure that we all have a shared understanding.
So could you tell us how you define anti bias education so that we can, you know, make sure that we're talking about the same thing?
Yeah. so I always use, the definitions that you can find, and I will mention these later, but, things through Louise Nerman Sparks work, that you can find in, you know, a lot of the books that approach anti bias education, but, Anti bias education is an approach that includes addressing issues of personal and social [00:06:00] identity, social emotional relationships with people different from oneself, prejudice, discrimination, critical thinking, and then taking action for fairness with children.
And a few things that I like to add to that kind of textbook definition. is that it's important to remember, that it's not just one person's job, for anti bias education. It's a collective, effort that includes caregivers, it includes teachers, it includes children, that really help operate within an anti bias framework.
It's important for everyone to come together and think that this work is important. It's also important to remember that though we kind of frame it as a way for children to come to understand the world around them. It's important to teach children about these things and how to help them unpack their biases and things like that, but it's also important for us to unpack our own.
And sometimes adults kind of forget [00:07:00] that we don't know everything and that can make people feel uncomfortable, but a lot of this work is centered around us spending time and figuring out the messaging that we're passing down to our children. It's so important. It's not just, okay, we did anti bias education for 10 minutes, and now we're done for the day.
Which I have heard before, but, it's a continuous journey. there's always more to learn. It's not a one stop destination. but it's something that should be incorporated into everything that you do.
I mean, it's woven, right? Like, this is what you're trying to say. It's woven throughout the day and especially in early childhood. Everything is multidisciplinary, there are spaces and Classrooms where there may be like, oh, we're doing literacy now,
And we're doing math now. And oh, math time is done. And we know that that's not best practice, right? We know [00:08:00] that's not how children are learning. And so I think what you're saying is, as with many of the other disciplines, it needs to just be something that is always there. It's not you're doing it once and you're moving on. And I think that the language that I, you know, really honor is like that. we're all in progress, we're constantly learning and unlearning more and more about our own biases about our own understanding of the world.
And there are just it. Yeah. Endless amounts of teachable anti bias moments that happen all the time. And what we want to do is raise children to be able to think critically about these biases or these interactions, or these things that are said, or that they come across in books, stories, media, movies, interpersonal relationships.
We want to empower them to a identify it and be notice it and then see actor do something on it. Right? Yes.
Yes. And it's, I think it's so important to understand, like you said, that it is the [00:09:00] like underpinnings of everything that you do, right? It should be the root of everything that you do, not necessarily like just one component of it.
and anti bias education actually has four main goals. And once again, those are listed in anti bias education for young children and ourselves. If you have not, Read that book, Take a look. Read it. Love it. but if listeners haven't read it, then you should go.
One is listed as identity. Go to, diversity, go three justice and then go for activism. And so, within, that framework and within that space, those are kind of the goals that ground us, as we continue through our anti bias education journey.
And for me, it's always been so helpful to remind myself of those because the first thought I had when you were sharing That now as a mom of a toddler that, you know, you're making a difference in her life and the way that she will show up in others lives.
And then in turn, the [00:10:00] people around her. My first feeling was like, Oh, the weight of that. I mean, as caregivers, as educators, as teachers, we know how impactful what we do with children is and how some things, the many more small moments, you they do, they impact them? And it can be a heavy feeling to know how much, what we do does matter for shaping them and who they become.
And one way that I often stop to remind myself is it, it can really start with being Identity and recognizing and noticing their identity, their culture, who they are, what's important to them. And as you start to work through that framework and move on to then diversity and justice and then activism, you're going on that journey with them.
So whether you know you don't have to, if children don't have an understanding of their own self, their own gender, their own race, their own culture, their own religion, they have nothing [00:11:00] to compare it to.
And so for me, that framework is so helpful.
Yeah, I agree. And I think that too just speaks to the fact that it's, and I just want to keep reiterating that it is a ongoing journey. A lot of the things that I've heard in my very short time as a consultant, but very long time within the early childhood field, is that sometimes It can halt people's progress if they think they have to know everything because they're so worried about knowing nothing or making a mistake.
And so when people come to me, a lot of their fears is just, what if I say the wrong thing? Or what if my child asked me something? What if one of the children in my classroom asked me something and I don't know what to say? And I think. it's so important for children to know that like adults are not the keepers of all the knowledge.
It's so important for them to know [00:12:00] that. It's so important for us to approach that with them and to model the fact that if you don't know something, It is okay to say, I don't know, let's look this up together. Let's read this book. Let's research this and start to model those things. And it's so important.
I think I know as a teacher in the beginning of my career, I went into there saying, I have to know everything. And it was overwhelming, right? I got to the point where I was just like, so. Worried about knowing everything that really I knew nothing because in your work with children, if you think you know everything you don't, they, they know, they know so much.
And if we think that we know everything, then that means that we are not honoring children's voice. We are not thinking about. How powerful and how insightful they are and how knowledgeable they come to us already, right? A lot of the times when they're asking us these [00:13:00] questions, they're trying to figure things out, about what's happening in the world around them.
And so It is important, for everyone to know that it is possible for anyone to be an anti bias educator. You have to care? You have to be open about, coming to know this and being co constructors of knowledge with children and being open. And there's a lot of other things that, you need to consider, but you don't have to know everything to start this work.
I think you just have to be. At the start, passionate, and wanting to make sure that, you are approaching your own biases and helping children navigate this world in a kinder and gentler way. So, that's a sub box I like to stand on, especially because sometimes when I tell people like, You don't know everything.
Teachers don't know it all. And then adults are like, what? What is she saying? We have to know. And [00:14:00] I think I like that uncomfortable space that it sometimes sends people because then it makes people think, right? It makes them. Think about, okay, well, do I know everything, or the idea of not wanting to talk about these things because children are too young, and they don't know about this yet, or they don't need to know about this yet, and a lot of the times when people say children are too young to know something.
One, I think that they haven't necessarily checked the research out on that piece yet, and two, I think it's rooted in their own discomfort for approaching these things. And so, you know, anti bias education teaches us a lot about the children around us and our communities and our world. But I also value it because it teaches us a lot about ourselves in the same sense.
As we come to know [00:15:00] the world and the others who inhabit it with us, and we build community with everyone, We come to know a lot about ourselves and the ways that we think these things and how we came to think these things. And, I love the self discovery that it offers and you have to, and I think another thing too, to add to what I said about anyone can be an anti bias educator.
You have to be willing to learn too. You have to be willing to listen. and to value this work.
Absolutely. The question I was going to ask you from here was kind of like, what is that most important thing for us as adults to hold on to as we think about incorporating and embracing anti bias and anti racist practices with young children?
And you've said it loud and clear here, one, you need to value this. And If you're asking the questions or you're listening to this episode or you're seeking your Instagram out, it's because you're [00:16:00] already valuing it. . So you've done that.
And two, the second thing is you need to be ready to be uncomfortable and accept that we don't know everything. I will say that I do feel that most early childhood educators, especially ones that have started to really embrace play based learning or have made some of the harder shifts from thinking of themselves as a traditional teacher to a developmentally appropriate teacher has already grappled with that, right?
Because the message, I don't know what your undergrad looked like, but the message that many undergrad, you know, In teacher preparatory services are is that by being a teacher, what this looks like is you are in front of the class. You are the holder of the knowledge and you are instilling it into the Children.
Rather, as you said so beautifully, you're co constructing it together. And instead, we really need to shed that we need to let that go and be co constructing are learning together. And that's really what So, you know, collective learning [00:17:00] and collective liberation, it is the goal of anti bias, anti racist work.
And so, understanding that, You don't know it all and it's okay and I, I think that it's really important to say what you said is that the discomfort comes up and, and the uncomfortableness and I will say, I mean, I've definitely been there. I have absolutely said the wrong thing in terms of something that I've said about a racial group or, in describing a gender or describing something and, you know, Have felt really uncomfortable with it, but that is because of some of the social Just like that, just all the things of all the things that are there, because I wouldn't necessarily feel that same discomfort if a child asked me about, how a flower grew and I didn't actually have the right terminology and I said that a pistol is different than a stamen, like I wouldn't feel that same discomfort as I do, right?
Because I think we use that discomfort and that saying, I don't [00:18:00] know everything, so I'm going to do nothing as that. Whereas we wouldn't do that necessarily with a math concept with a science concept with other concepts. It's because it's these socially constructed things that are all these biases and all our things and nobody's in our generation.
We didn't really talk about right like we wasn't. So we're not, we're not used to having these conversations and so instead we are having to have these conversations. We're forcing ourselves to have these conversations to mess up and what a great opportunity all our mistakes are. As you said, we have to model to our children that A, we can make a mistake.
We can recognize the mistake and I believe you and I have like through Instagram talked about it, but Britt Hawthorne is like, you know, Love everything that she says and does and one of my favorite things that language that I adopted of hers Was that kind of like oh, I don't know where I picked that up And i'm gonna put that right back down like I picked up this bias somewhere.
I picked up, you know [00:19:00] Reinforcing this stereotype. I don't know where I picked it up. I'm gonna acknowledge it I'm gonna verbally say something about it and i'm gonna put it right back down and keep moving, I think it's so important to just model those things all the time.
And I think, something else too, when thinking about important things for adults to know is that, and we touched a little bit on this, but just because You don't talk about something, you want to avoid it, you want to pretend it doesn't exist doesn't mean that it's going to go away. And I think that is a lot of unlearning based on that's kind of how things were dealt with when we were growing up, maybe I'll speak for myself.
I know that's definitely how things were dealt with in the media or our schools but it's so important to know that that's not true. And if you don't talk about something with children, they're still going to be [00:20:00] trying to develop as they should, and they're trying to put these pieces together for themselves, if you aren't talking with them, then they're going to be forced, to listen to the loudest voice in the room.
And a lot of times that voice doesn't represent your family values. It might not represent your personal values. And I don't want my daughter listening to the loudest voice in the room, because they're not always correct. So I think. they don't always care about everyone, and that's kind of the messaging that we want to pass out, right?
Is that, you know, we want to make sure that a lot of the things that we do, care is at the root of it. And so, that's one thing that I like to say, just because you try to ignore it or pretend it's not there, doesn't mean it's going away. And then also, another thing for adults to remember and hold on to is that this work is for everyone.
If we want to work towards liberation, if we want to [00:21:00] work towards community, if we want to work towards building a world that's better for our children, we have to have accountability and we have to make sure that we know that this is not just for us.
This is going to take all of us to be able to move our world forward and progress. And a lot of times when I go to talk to people about anti bias education, I've been sometimes met with, Oh, I don't need that. We're so diverse here, or I don't need that because we are not diverse here, right? I've heard that too.
And so I think it's important for people to know that we all have biases is how our brain works and that this work is the work of all of us if we want to see change. And if we want to continue to build a world that is built on care for others and love and kindness. It's, it's for everyone. And so that's something [00:22:00] that I hope, listeners, I hope you're all listening to that, that this is all of our job.
And so let's tie this into now, children's literature. How can we use children's literature to, to support anti bias education? What is the connection there? I mean, it seems very obvious to me. But I try to remind myself, that maybe for everybody, it's not as, it's not as clear.
It's not as obvious. So what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. So children's books, and children's literature are like my top tools, for making that anti bias connection. So a lot of times when people are like, well, what's, what's an actionable step? Because as teachers, that's the way our brains work.
Like we have all of this like research and theory kind of just like swirling around and we're like, well, what can I do right now? Get out some diverse children's books. Okay, books offer children represented representation and offer them a space to see diversity. they introduce characters from diverse backgrounds, different [00:23:00] cultures, different abilities, different family structures, different identities.
they're great also for challenging those stereotypes. So a lot of the work that anti bias education is, is making sure that we are cognizant of the stereotypes that are being portrayed and that we're able to challenge them and discuss them with children and why they're harmful. Books can of course promote inclusivity as, you know, we're talking about kind of showing a view of different identities and different lifestyles, different abilities and things like that.
They can build empathy and they're also. a great tool for getting conversations started, right? we need these tools to be able to have these conversations. And I think choosing high quality, diverse Children's literature is a great way to not only support Children, but also to support adults and being able to have these big [00:24:00] conversations and knowing what to say.
I think at the very root of this is that it's important for children to be able to see themselves, their lives, their families, et cetera, reflected in these stories, it's important for everyone, and so a true way to send the message to people that they matter, and that their stories matter and are important is by choosing books that, Represent all different types of people and incorporating that into your work.
And so that's just a small snapshot, but I think those are some of the key ways that literature connects with anti bias education, I've even used that and I have taught like college courses where I've told them to use the books as talking points and, you know, what do you notice about the people in this book or, you know, what do you think about fairness or what's happening in this story or what do you [00:25:00] notice about this community?
Does it look Similar to yours? Does it look different? What do you think? Like just kind of starting to be able to have those conversations with children and having those kind of built in talking points. And the good thing about this is that there's so many resources out there for people who are trying to incorporate a lot of these titles into their libraries and things.
one of the ones that I like to tell my college students about and that I like to tell working with about is, socialjusticebooks. org. If you are familiar with some of their work, and seen it, you can literally go on their website and they have a checklist, for selecting books. But then they also have, like, you can type in the book title, and kind of see information about the book and how to use it.
But then also they have, like, curated book list that are useful too [00:26:00] as people are trying to incorporate. this work into, like, their classrooms, into their home life, and a few things that they're saying to look for when you're looking for these books are, of course, check for stereotypes, check for tokenism, and then look for invisibility.
So who is being made visible with this story? What voices are we amplifying? And make sure that you're being strategic when you're pulling books into your classroom, that you want to make sure that you're amplifying many different voices, Even voices that aren't represented within your classroom.
You want to make sure that you can, you know, be able to have those books so that children can read them and come to understand stories from different people or different types of people with different identities. This is also like kind of moving a little bit forward, but, some of the books for children are important, but there's also important books for adults.
So, a few of the titles that I brought to [00:27:00] share were, social justice parenting by Dr. Tracy Baxley. I read that recently during my dissertation work, just kind of like to move my brain away from the dissertating piece and so powerful, so powerful. It feels like as you're reading, you're having a conversation with her, right?
Like, as you're reading, it's just like, she's talking to, like, she's just talking to you, and it's, it's an open space, and it's safe. I felt the same way about raising anti racist children by Breonna Fawcett. Once again, phenomenal, like, phenomenal books, that are coming out that give you these talking points, and allow you to explore your thinking within a safe space.
Sometimes I think a lot of the times we stop this work and we stop the growth because we're too afraid to tell people, that's what I was thinking, or That's what I, that's what I thought, and it might be wrong, but you're too afraid to kind [00:28:00] of debunk that with others. And so that's why I think a lot of these books are important, because it allows you to kind of do that work on your own while giving you the strategies to be able to do that.
we mentioned anti bias education for young children and ourselves, 10 out of 10. Everything that, you know, this work is, don't do that, don't do that. There it is. So, please read it. That's literally the foundation of all of this. and then, of course, how to be an anti racist and then how to raise an anti racist.
and the great thing about Dr. Kendi is that, He not only produces books for adults, but also some for children too. So, you know, everyone in your house could be reading or everyone in your classroom could be reading Dr. Kimberley. and so those are a few, but I'm always on the lookout for new authors, new books.
You can catch me in the children's book section at the library, local bookstore, always. That's my favorite spot to hang out. I have like a couple of librarian friends that I like, [00:29:00] I'm like, what's new on the shelves? What are you guys ordering? So, I love discovering and sharing new stories because I believe it's so important.
I've also been, I'll say now on the right side of Instagram with like so many like social justice accounts and I'm following library, librarian accounts. And I think one of the beautiful things is that. When we start to think about, our roles within, our work and within education. There's so many intersections here, with a lot of people doing the same work in different ways.
And so I think that's beautiful too, because librarians are like the OG social justice of people, right? Because that's, that's their work. Like they're putting things out for, and making sure that people are represented and they love this. And so I found myself on the right side of Instagram by following a lot of their accounts too.
always open to suggestions as well, but those are the few that I brought with me to share, today. [00:30:00]
Yeah, I actually didn't know social justice parenting, how to raise, compassionate anti racists. justice minded children in an unjust world. That's a mouthful.
I, that's a new book to me. So I didn't know that. So I definitely just made note of that. The other one that I haven't read yet, but is on my stack is this book is anti racist, Tiffany Jewel. I always can remember back when the pandemic was like in the height of things, you know, there was like, we had to find those silver linings.
Right. And one of SIlver linings was We were able to be virtually present for so many more things and I remember Dr. Kendi did some type of virtual something and I was able to like be on that call and I had my child with me with his how to be an anti racist like board book and I had my book and I just remember that was like such a powerful moment that technology had so much more capabilities than we were ever utilizing. so I just made note of all those books and I will definitely throw those into, [00:31:00] the show notes. The other one that I feel like is definitely helpful for us as educators to keep, in mind through the lens of being teachers and anti bias educators is the culturally responsive teaching &.
brain, so keeping that at the forefront as well. it's not as applicable to thinking of young kids and it's definitely a little bit more tech text D. But that was super helpful for me as well in my understanding and the social justice books.
website is a great one. And there is actually even an article and I'll link that there's an article in there that's written by Louise Dermot Sparks about how to select anti bias children books. . Because I think that we can. Sometimes do a disservice if we are not fully vetting a book before we get it.
I've been privy to it, there have been times where I've maybe Purchased a book that was representing a biracial family and come to find out it's written by a white person. That's [00:32:00] not from a biracial family, that's not a book that I would want to read.
And so I would make a different choice moving forward, right? And so I think it's really important. Making sure that whatever maybe is being represented in there that the author and or illustrators are a part of that Culture or a part of that identity that they identify with it.
and that it's really important, to hold that. The other thing that I was thinking about is, like simple prompts or language that educators can use when I almost think it's important to not use it when you're reading the book, but sometimes after, and I think that in my practice, I paired up with actually a librarian and a anti bias consultant , and then three other educators.
And we wrote, a curriculum we recognize when we were teaching kindergarten that there was a lack of addressing directly social justice topics, and this was [00:33:00] probably in 2018, and we noticed this.
And so we wrote a grant and we got all these people on and we started kind of writing. And what we did through the work of it was recognize that the biggest takeaway I had from that was centering, Joy and making sure I think that that's what's important in all this, that we're not reading these texts to, tokenize and to highlight the strife and the challenges, right?
So we're wanting to highlight the joys and the benefits and the pros and just The incidentals. That there happens to be somebody that's in a wheelchair that there happens to be somebody that's bilingual that there happens to be somebody that's blind, and not that it's a story all about a child that's blind and the quote unquote challenge that they go through
So those incidental roaming so that was my big takeaway that, and then also the idea that it's really important to you. to read books for enjoyment with children and to then leave them on shelves and to [00:34:00] revisit them again. And then in the revisiting of books is when you're maybe asking those more intentional questions about like, who's this story about?
Like you said, who's visible, who's invisible, who's telling the story, whose voice is missing., so what is some suggestions or what recommendations do you have around how to use text in, you know, when people are grabbing, like you said, like, you got stacks of books, you're ready, you've got windows, mirrors, and sliding doors. And now what?
Yeah, I think filling your space with these books because children naturally love, you know, to listen to stories, to read stories, to hear stories. So I think choosing You know, then, because like you said, you want to enjoy them is so important. you can incorporate them into, you know, if you're teaching in the classroom, you can incorporate them into like your classroom kind of [00:35:00] focus and things like that.
But I just think it's important. To have them there. if something comes up and you need to address it pulling a story that does address it helps but if it doesn't come up and you want to have it in your classroom To kind of spark that conversation Maybe being proactive versus reactive In that sense.
I think that's important too So I think my best answer to that is just having them around and picking them up and opening them It's so important and using them is just so important. And then I think the ways that you can use them or the ways that you can discuss them with children will come.
Something could happen based on you opening that book and you can talk about it then and there. But I think just exposing the children around you to these different types of literature is so, so, so important.
Absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree. Now I'm going to be mindful of our time because I think like the sweet spot for a podcast is around 30 to [00:36:00] 40 minutes, but I would love to have you back because I want to now pick your brain and talk even deeper about how there are definitely gaps in the books.
That we can put on our shelves, and that's where I think storytelling can be so powerful because we can, using an anti bias, anti racist lens, tell any kind of story that we want, right? You can instead craft a story around it.
And so I would love to to bring you back to chat about that But before you go, I would love do you have right now a favorite children's book that you Either just recently came across or is it like a loved beloved one? I know i'm putting
You can name more than one I have a whole list and i'm trying to i'm looking at my daughter's bookshelf right now trying to see if I can pick some of those off.
Okay, so [00:37:00] Some that I just came around, into contact with would be some from the first conversation series. which I'm sure you've heard of, by Dr. Megan Madison and Jessica Rowley. great. Like those are great stories too. facilitate and have these discussions with children. Also, the authors are pretty great, too.
And so, you know, very passionate about this work, and that's what you want. that's what I want when I'm looking for books, right? Like, the author is passionate and knowledgeable about what, they're writing about, and they are. And I love those books so much. I have them for, My daughter's bookshelf.
But then I also did a giveaway with those books because I wanted to add them into, somebody else's library too. .
I have a whole, anti bias children's book list. So I'm getting that pulled up. Okay. So some of the ones that I've enjoyed And I'll kind [00:38:00] of do a few from each age group, depending on who your listeners are. some of the few that I've enjoyed kind of reading recently with my, toddler. The Color of Us is a board book.
And I believe it's newer, but that's one. That we really, enjoy. Let's see, of course, Woke Baby, some of those other board books. All Are Welcome by Alexandra Penfold. And now I've seen All Our Neighbors. So that's a good one, too, that I've introduced in my college, courses.
Everybody, a first conversation about bodies, which we talked a little bit about. there is also that, new book, and it's called, and this is for kind of the older kindergarten, probably through third grade, Intersection Allies. We Make Room for All is another good one that, I've heard about.
Bodies are cool. It's definitely one of my top [00:39:00] favorite.
anti racist baby, of course. A is for activists. love makes the family is another one, that I've been seeing a lot, as well.
That book is so well loved in our home that even our puppy has chewed the cover of it and it was our library book. And we bought it from the library after the baby chewed it. But that is another book.
Love makes a family that has really simple texts. And children wouldn't necessarily think anything of it in the way that you're reading it and the illustrations allow you to have conversations kind of at the level that you feel comfortable with around different family makeups. I agree that that's a great one.
those ones that aren't too dense in the early childhood I think are really helpful, right?
I think one more that I recently discovered, and listened to once is Love Without Bounds. And I believe it's written by the same, folks that [00:40:00] wrote Intersection Allies book.
Yeah. but that one I recently heard too is really good showcases so many different types of people and families and. I think, too, a lot of times, people are looking for a way to have these conversations, and I think talking about families is a great way, to start to begin to, like, have children really think critically about, you know, people's different experiences with families and things, too.
So, yes, all of the above, and then tons of other recommendations on You know, via Instagram, via socialjusticebooks. org, and so many other, websites. Oh, and one more that I recently used from our college course is called The Artivist, if you've seen that one. and that one is by Nicholas Smith. So that is a really good one, too.
Oh, and one more. [00:41:00] I'm so sorry, but this one I read recently and it like brought me to tears. Vashti Harrison is such a great author. And the one in particular that I'm thinking about is called Big. And it talks a lot about, body diversity. and why that is so important and as you kind of get into this work, there's so many different connections and layers and that was one that reading this book as an adult brought me to tears, thinking about the biases that are built in around bodies.
And how you kind of grow up with that as well as ideas, and how harmful they can be even as adults. This, like, reading this book, at work around, adults and, sobbing and then, leaving and, being like, okay, you know, that was such a good story. And then, calling my best friend [00:42:00] and telling her, like, you have to read this.
And then her calling me back and, sobbing. But I think it's so important to, have these conversations. And I just think it just speaks to the power of children's books, even as adults. Right, bringing up things that we didn't even, sometimes they can bring up things that we didn't even know we still carry as we think about ourselves or even think about the people around us.
So that was another good one, for me. And once again, I spent a lot of my free time, picking up children's books. So yeah, I think
what you're saying is also that was just such a moment for me to think about you reading that book, how important and valuable that felt for you to hear that.
And then also, I'm imagining maybe there wasn't a whole ton of conversations as you were children around body image, around the messaging that you were receiving. And this idea of just because we don't talk about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist and the voices that you probably listen to about body image where the loudest voices in the room, which [00:43:00] were commercials, which were, ads, which were magazines, which were the TV shows, right?
Because those are the things that the media, the children are consuming media. And even if they don't have screens, they're still consuming it. They're seeing it in target when they're seeing that there's a boy's section and a girl's section, they're seeing it in their conversations with their neighbors or all these other places.
And so I think that really important what you and I both are saying is we need to all be owning this and we need to all be finding ways to sit in discomfort that we feel ourselves for the greater good. Because, you know, just because we don't talk about it doesn't mean it's not happening. And if we aren't the ones that are talking about it with the children in our lives, then who are the ones that they are listening to, if it's not us.
And one more thing I want to add to that, because that is so true, and I didn't really think very critically about it in my adult years, especially about body image, until I read, Brit Clawthorne's [00:44:00] book, I think I read it around the time where I was pregnant with my daughter, and I'm like, I need to read all of these social justice books and get ready, and things like that, but she made a point to say, and I don't want to misspeak, so if you have not read the book, please go read it, but she talked some about it.
the racism behind body image and conversations about it. and that like, you know, a part of being an anti racist is also thinking critically and anti bias is also thinking critically about the ways that we view bodies too. And once again, I And like, this is what I took from it. So I'm, I'm not like completely quoting her, but this is what I took from it.
And some of the things that, you know, she brought up about it really made me think that through. And one of the points that I wanted to make as we wrap up is that, and I don't think I've said this yet, but anti bias education is not just about race.
We carry [00:45:00] biases about so many things. And it's important for us to think about these things and the messaging that we are passing down to children. And I think that's just an example for me, like thinking about, you know, I'm opening up a raising anti racist children's book. I'm thinking, okay, we're going to talk a lot about social justice and we're going to talk a lot about race and we're going to talk like about those things, which those things still play a part in this,
Not talked about or missed when we only think that this work is focused on race. And it's so much, there's so many other components.
Absolutely. and where I will leave with that is it is more than that and the way to really know where to start is by going back to identity and thinking about your own identity and children's identities and raising their awareness and pride.
In all the social identities that they hold their gender, their race, their [00:46:00] ethnic culture, their religious, their economic class groupings, their body, all those things. And I appreciate you for saying that because sometimes when you're so in it, it's hard to step back.
And I think it's a really important thing to say that, anti bias work is not just about race. It's about all of the things, all of the things. So awesome. Well, thanks so much again. I will put your Instagram, at the anti bias. I'm going to put this, into the show notes as well as I will try to capture as many of these books and things.
But if you want to hear more about what Dr. Jasmine Moses has to say, and you are looking to pick her brain or get her to support you in your work, please get in her DMs or fill out one of her forms to do some consultant work or professional development with her and, be sure that you're following her and tune in for all the great things that I know she has in store for us.
I can't wait to see it.
I just want to leave, folks with thinking, you know, [00:47:00] commit to always learning as we've talked about before, and then also commit to empowering and valuing and listening to the children that are around you. it's so important and I want to make sure it's because like you said before, something that sat with me through this is that if you are listening to this episode and if you are interested, within this work, it means that, you already value it and you already know how important it is.
So please keep doing this excellent work. we're all important within this work and our world really depends on it and the world of our children depend on it too.
Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. And I so appreciate chatting with you and I can't wait to talk again.
Yes. Thanks for having me.
The end. But really, that's it for today's episode of Stories That Stick. Inspiring and captivating minds, young and old. Remember, stories have the incredible [00:48:00] ability to spark conversations, ignite imagination, and create lasting connections. If you loved what you heard, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a five star review.
It really does make a difference. And, if you have a story to share or a topic you want me to explore, reach out to me on Instagram at LittleStoriesThatStick. Until next time, keep working that storytelling muscle and tell stories every day.
