Carla podcast episode
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Speaker 2: [00:00:00] Welcome to Stories That Stick with me, Laura, as your resident storyteller. I'm here to show you how oral stories inspire and captivate minds young and old. Tune in each week to hear a compelling story and join in meaningful conversations. I'll be digging deep into the heart of storytelling, connection, and listening.
So whether you're a kid, teacher, caregiver, grandparent, or simply a lover of stories, this podcast is for you. Join me as you get lost in another world and discover how stories shape our lives. Here's to the next page in our story.
Laura: Welcome to today's episode of Stories That Stick. Today I have finally on my podcast Carla Ward. She and I met years ago, and she's the one that encouraged me to get my podcast going. And since then, we've had the intention to record together for many, many times, and I'm so thrilled to have her here [00:01:00] now to chat about humans using their voices with children and the importance of it in the ever-growing AI and technology world that we're in.
So glad to have you here, Carla. I'd love to have you introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about you.
Carla: Yes. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I honestly had to go back and check 'cause I didn't believe you when you said that we hadn't recorded yet. So thank you for having me. You're welcome.
Hello, everyone. My name is Carla Ward. I am Laura's Canadian friend, and I am in Mississauga, Ontario, just outside of Toronto, and you can find me anywhere on socials at either carlaward or CarlatheECE and carlatheece.com. I live, breathe, and bleed early childhood education, and literally don't know what I would do if I wasn't talking about early childhood.
Laura: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I hear that. Okay. So this topic kind of just came to you. Yes. And I'd love to just get a sense of, like, when [00:02:00] you first had this thought about tone and voice in the early childhood classroom, in storytelling and read-alouds like what exactly do you mean and why does this matter for children?
Carla: So we have a really- Now unique opportunity with zero to five-year-olds. Mm-hmm. Because most zero to five, even let's say zero to eight years old, don't have access to cell phones. We know that they have access to tech. They have, you know, YouTube. They have ... Unfortunately, I've seen toddlers be able to be, unlock a phone.
So they do have access to technology, but we have this unique opportunity where they're not communicating to each other through text messaging yet. And so it's really got me thinking about how valuable our time with them in our programs is to actually connect, but have conversations with them, talk to them, use our tone.
So what I mean by that is, you know, if I send a text message without an [00:03:00] emoji, somebody usually thinks I'm mad at them, right? Because you can't detect tone over text. But I grew up in the '80s. I didn't have a cell phone, so I already knew how to detect tone. And yet even as a grown adult with a fully developed brain, I struggle with tone if someone puts an exclamation mark, or God forbid, a period at the end of a sentence.
Because if you put a period I'm like, "There's no emoji." What's the emotion behind it, right? Well, now we've got children in the age of technology where they are talking to whatever she's called on whoever. "Hey, G," or, "Hey, whoever." And now the ... What's her name? What ... I say her like she's a person. Like, the person- Like, Siri.
Siri.
Laura: Alexa. Okay.
Carla: Alexa, there we go. Alexa. See? Oh my God. We don't have any of that in our house because I just don't like the idea of it listening to me, even though I know my phone listens to me. But children are talking to them.
Laura: Right.
Carla: Like, [00:04:00] "Hey, Alexa, what's the weather gonna be today?" Yes. And Alexa doesn't have a lot of intonation.
When you really listen to it-
Laura: Mm-hmm ...
Carla: they always respond in the same tone, right? And so as I'm doing more research on AI, which I do love to use in my business, but I do have an issue with children using it to have conversations with it because, to be fair, AI usually always agrees with you. So let's say a teenager who has access to AI goes to AI and says, "Listen, my friends are being a bunch of jerks, and this is what's happening."
They'd be like, "Oh, well, that sucks." I don't even know if I can do it in monotone, right? "That sucks. I can see your perspective." AI's gonna agree with them, right? Whereas if we can start using intonation when they're little what does angry sound like? What does sarcastic sound like? What does sad sound like, right?
So that children can learn to pick up on these social cues from someone's voice, [00:05:00] but also learn how to express it. Because, and we do it through storytelling. Storytelling is the way that we teach children this. It's the way we show them that tone and emotions are, A, absolutely valid, right? And that your tone and intonation help people understand how you're feeling.
So that is where my little curiosity brain has been going lately. Mm-hmm. And appreciate you giving me the platform to have this discussion about it.
Laura: Yeah. I mean, my brain just went in so many places, 'cause I think some of what I do right now with the growing use of AI is just compartmentalize.
Because it's a little overwhelming, scary, like a lot to think about for me, especially in the context of what this looks like in the education field and for children. Also I'm in this kind of unique space where like you, [00:06:00] maybe you have the same experience, but like I run my own business and I homeschool.
So if I go anywhere, it's like a grocery store or somewhere out in nature, and online with my therapist. But a couple months ago, I had to go in for physical therapy, and I had to sign a release that it was okay that they would use AI, and they were gonna record when they were doing their evaluation of my ankle, and that it was going to save time for the note keeping for the physical therapist.
And I was like, "That makes so much sense," right? Like I know-
Carla: Totally ...
Laura: so many people in the field of medical care, and the thing and is always like we're bogged down with paperwork, we're bogged down with paperwork, you know? We just wanna treat our patients, but we have to write all these notes, and insurance needs this and that and whatever, right?
So when I was in and she was helping me with my foot, like she was asking, "Does this hurt? Does this hurt?" And then she was just like saying in very technical terms whatever she was determining and what she was feeling and what she was finding. And that was the first [00:07:00] time I had the experience of somebody using AI, and I'm like, "Oh."
And I talked to my sister who's in the corporate world, and she's like, "Where have you been?" And I'm like, "Not here." Like not this. So I don't even have like my pulse on how many companies, corporations, and fields are using it, because I really am pretty isolated. You know what I mean?
Carla: So can we try something- Yes
on this episode? And if it's absolute crap, you can just feel free to delete it. But I wanna show you what the voice activation... I don't use it because it actually freaks me out, but I know a lot of people that are using it as conversations, and then I think about teenagers having access to it.
You can have a full-on conversation with ChatGPT. The conversation one is freaky as heck because it's just a full-on it just talks to you all the time. [00:08:00] Because it's like you're a friend. It's like talking to a friend, and I'm a grown adult, but to have children doing that freaks me out.
Laura: So, I've seen, who knows where, the ads where they're making a toy, a stuffed animal-
Carla: Yeah, yeah ...
Laura: to have back and forth conversations
Carla: with them. It was one of the biggest things on the Christmas list this year, and I did find it, so hang on.
So let's try this. Hey, Chat. So I'm on a podcast right now, and I'm talking about how much your voice freaks me out, but can you just tell people a little bit about yourself?
AI: Totally fair. Uh, so I'm an AI, and this voice you're hearing, it's just a synthesized layer built from patterns and speech.
I'm not a person, and I don't have a body, but this voice is designed to be clear and easy to follow. And it's okay if it feels uncanny sometimes. That reaction is completely normal. I'm just here to help and to be clear.
Carla: Thank you so much for being clear about who you are and what you do.
AI: No problem. [00:09:00] And thanks for naming that out loud.
It's important to be upfront.
Carla: Right?
Laura: Oh my gosh. Listeners, you can't see me, but my jaw is on the ground. my business coach has encouraged me to dump voice notes in when I'm building things out or trying to, work through a launch of something instead of typing. And I'm like, "Mm, no." Like, no, I'm- it's fine.
Like, although my voice notes are helpful in some ways, sometimes I will do a voice note and just dump my thoughts and then listen back to it. I don't, I mean, I don't wanna have that conversation, but I can absolutely imagine, yeah, children utilizing that. Yeah. So this is what's coming. So this is what's coming.
There's- there's toys that do this. There's the devices that, are in our homes that respond to us. And and then there's tablets and tech that children are all exposed to. So I wanna go back to this idea where you're like, okay, so we have this unique opportunity with zero to five, maybe zero to eight-year-olds where they have access to tech but they don't have their own phone so they're [00:10:00] not yet engaging in this way.
and yet I also know a lot of what's coming up in my conversations and supporting of educators, and I imagine this is the same for you, we're hearing a lot about children's behaviors that are just like different than any other, right? And what it really comes down to is a lot of executive functioning skills and a lot of social emotional skills that are not foundationally there.
And then the through line that many of us can get to is like- Parents are doing the best that they can and have this tool that can now give them a moment of peace or whatever it is, and then creates this cycle of when you're giving a two-year-old constant dopamine hits, then to remove it is actually so much harder than just giving in and giving it.
And so children maybe aren't even getting as much of that personal back-and-forth conversation at home. And then in the classroom, it's [00:11:00] so hard to do because educators are doing the best that they can and are bogged down by da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
Carla: Yeah. Oh, and listen, I am not one to judge because- Oh, absolutely
been there. I get it. However, I always like to use the example of snow suits, right? So if we try to put on the children's snow suits every day in the winter-
Laura: Mm-hmm ...
Carla: we are going to be frustrated and irritated by the time winter comes to the end. Mm-hmm. However, if we put in the hard work and we start snowsuit time a little bit earlier and give children that chance to build that executive function to make mistakes, for them to get frustrated with their snow suits and fail and try again- Yeah
then by February, you now have 15 toddlers putting on their own snow suits. And so the same goes for tech. Absolutely. When you take that iPad away, like the number of parents I know, and again, I'm not criticizing, the number of parents I know that actually disconnect the Wi-Fi and just tell their children that the Wi-Fi went off rather than having a conversation with their [00:12:00] children that iPad time is done, because it's easier.
But is it? Or is it just easier right now? Right. and we have to decide, do you wanna be having this fight with a five-year-old, or do you wanna be having a much, much bigger fight over something serious at 15?
Laura: Yeah.
Carla: Because everything's long-term, right? it's a marathon, not a sprint. Everything we do in the zero to five is going to affect them for the rest of their lives.
We know that 90% of the brain develops in the first five years. So instead of, for educators, instead of putting on a YouTube video, instead of I used to do this, so again, I'm not judging, instead of putting on a Robert Munsch story on YouTube, go get a Robert Munsch book and read it You know?
Will every child want to come and sit the first few times you do it? Probably not, because their executive functioning is growing, their focus is growing, their development is growing, and that's okay. But grab the book, sing the song instead of playing Spotify. One, connection is key. That's where connection [00:13:00] is.
Again, that tone is huge. And if you are reading, you wanna overemphasize, because they are having less and less access to conversations at the dinner table. Because people are busy. Families are busy. Again, I'm not judging, but that is the fact, right? We don't know if every child is being read to at bedtime.
I hope so- Yeah ... because what a beautiful connection for parents to have with their children. But again, single parents, y- that would be hecka hard to try and read a story to your child when you've got multiple children to put to bed at night, or you're working the night shift, right? Or one of the siblings is putting a child to bed.
Like, there's so many reasons, right? And again, we can't judge it, but it makes our jobs when children are in our care so much more so much more important, but there's a need for even more intentionality.
Laura: Mm.
Carla: So when you choose your books we're talking about self-regulation being a real struggle.
So is there a lesson in the story? Your character somebody that gets really mad, so now you're [00:14:00] changing your tone, so the child goes, "Oh, I feel like that sometime." And then showing how they manage those emotions, right? There needs to be an intention behind the books and stories that we choose.
And again, doesn't have to be a book. It can be a story, right? Doesn't mean there has to be pages to go with it. But be intentional as to what the story is, and then be really intentional about your voice. If you are reading monotone, and I am clearly not a monotone person, if, so I can't even mimic it, but are you increasing your volume, lowering your volume when someone's whispering, or heightening it when someone's loud, or deepening it when someone's really mad?
You know, are you using your whole body? Because that is how children are going to learn.
Laura: Yeah. Absolutely. So many things just came to mind as I'm thinking about this. And, and again, similarly in the what needs to be happening in the early childhood spaces and programs is just getting back to the basics, [00:15:00] getting back to the things- 100%
that are so simple, to me seem so simple, that they're just so lost. They're so lost. And I'll never forget when somebody shared with me the reality that in a lot of classrooms, people are pulling down the screen or SMART Board and putting on Jack Hartmann instead of singing Head, Shoulders, Knees, and Toes.
And- Oh,
Carla: All the time. A- I'm seeing it so often ...
Laura: and, I feel so many feelings when I think about that. One, I'm like, oh, okay, great, the teacher probably gets to go pee. The teacher probably gets to sit down for a second. You know what I mean? I get that idea of not needing and not having the capacity to be on all day because as early childhood educators, that's basically what we are.
We're on all day. Mm-hmm. Energy has to be high, like eyes alert, like there and in it. And so I used to play a CD player. I would play songs sometimes. Mm-hmm. I would, sometimes I would sing, and sometimes I would put on a CD player. But like I stopped teaching in 2023, and so the majority of my [00:16:00] years was like from 2007 to 2018 was when I was doing a lot of my pivotal years of teaching and tech wasn't what it was.
I mean, we were using a digital camera and a overhead projector and sometimes rolling in the projector that actually went with a big screen that I had to set up. And so it just doesn't, it wouldn't be something that I would go to right now because it's just not in my repertoire, but I think that that's what's happening is we are replacing the human with something that's just a little bit quicker and easier, and for the child, more engaging.
But slowing down, stopping, and asking ourself, "Why am I doing this? What is the benefit of this? And what is the potential impact of this?" Is really critical question for us to be thinking about because hearing responsive, expressive human voice in a back and forth way is so important for children zero to five.
[00:17:00] Oral language is critical. Children need to have a solid foundation of oral language to be proficient readers and writers later. So this seems like A great place to start is to start-
Carla: Yes ...
Laura: taking away the YouTube songs, sing a song. Start taking away the YouTube video of the book, read the book, and tell a one-minute story.
Carla: Literally one minute. One minute. That's all it takes. Like, think about how much we talk about for babies serve and return.
Laura: Mm-hmm.
Carla: Right? We know how important that is. But it doesn't stop once that babbling becomes whole words. If anything, it's even more important to continue. And we've seen children watching YouTube, they zone out, they are zombies.
The number of lunch programs, and again, I know it's because we're short on lunchroom supervisors, they put on YouTube so that the children will eat. My issue with that, the children are no longer listening to their bodies, they're no longer having discussions over food. We're literally conditioning them to be teenagers and [00:18:00] adults sitting at tables across from each other scrolling on their phones, and then we get upset and criticize.
But really, we've put on YouTube for them to watch while they're eating. So again, is this serving the child? Mm. If we put YouTube on for a music circle, and listen, again, I'm not saying I would never do it. One song, fine, right? But to do it for your music circle, then the child is connecting with YouTube and not connecting with you.
So now the ability to help a child socially, emotionally regulate is exponentially harder because that child doesn't trust you, because they don't know you. There's no connection with you.
Laura: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Carla: I will get off my soapbox for a hot minute. But it honestly comes back to intentionality behind what we're doing.
But really the purpose of why I wanted to talk to you today is focusing on our tone when we are [00:19:00] telling stories. Because I think with AI entering the picture, we are going to find the older they get, the harder time they're gonna have not just using tone, but also interpreting it.
Laura: Right. Reading tone.
And so I'm thinking about some of the pushback that I sometimes will get from people around oh, sing a song or tell a story. Right? There's a bit of self-consciousness about doing voices or performing, this discomfort of I'm not a good singer, whatever it might be, right? But what are some ways that we can just bring a story to life?
Because this is this lifeline, right? If you have a book that has onomatopoeias or the text is written in a way where it does it for you, right? If you can find these books that already have the expression built in, that can be the bridge to some silliness, right? Like, I immediately think of the book with no pictures.
Carla: That's what I was
Laura: thinking of. Yeah. Like, start there. Read that once a week, get silly with the kids, and then that's [00:20:00] gonna loosen you up. Maybe find those books that have the expression built into it already, right?
Carla: And that's just it, have fun. Like, there's a reason we're not all sitting in cubicles, because we are drawn to children.
We're drawn to the young and pure and just the innocence of childhood. So why not enjoy it?
Laura: Mm-hmm.
Carla: And why not embrace it? Like, life is too short to be boring.
Laura: Mm-hmm.
Carla: So who cares if your voice is scratchy? The kids don't care.
Laura: Mm-mm.
Carla: And if your co-teacher cares, tell them to leave the room for five minutes.
Yeah. Like, they'll be fine.
Laura: Right.
Carla: Right? But I promise you, I'm sure your co- your, your co-teacher won't care.
Laura: Right. Yeah. And now I've always thought about storytelling for so many other reasons, right? To do, to just tell a one-minute story, mostly for the, the benefit of connection with the child, but also modeling what a story can sound like to then move into supporting them and doing storytelling and story acting.
But what another [00:21:00] powerful reason for us to think about reading the book or telling the story, because what is it that children are gaining that is gonna be critical for them in their life lifelong when we are putting the devices down, looking at them in the eye, and reading or telling them stories. And then also, the other thing that came to my mind was when they are seven, eight, nine, and they're reading books, do you know what one of the markers is that we're looking for of k- children as readers?
Reading with fluency, tone- There it is ... pacing, pauses, expression, right? The book doesn't make any sense if you're not changing your voice for the characters, and graphic novels are huge for beginning readers now. And I love/hate it because it really has to have some of that, but it's hard for a kid that's still decoding word by word to, to add a voice or change it.
But it has so much expression in it. It has blah, bloop, ah. Right? It's like [00:22:00] building that into whatever the scenes are that happening, and it's almost teaching them as they're reading to build that in, and they can see the action happening. So I think it's a great bridge for them, and a great way for them to practice the tone and pacing or pauses or whatever it might be, because it has a lot of punctuation.
And here we are coming back to this, but if they haven't had this model, how does it sound?
Carla: Yeah. Well, and imagine how boring a book would be if you can't read intonation when you're reading a book. If it, if it says, you know, "And then Carla shouted, 'Get out of my house!'"
Laura: Mm.
Carla: Well, that's not shouting. It's, "Get out of my house!"
But if you struggle to understand that, how are you gonna fall in love with reading? Right, when you're reading it in your mind. How are you gonna get excited about the stories? So I think there's just so many reasons for us to be doing it.
Laura: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. All right. Well, let's wrap it up [00:23:00] here before we go down another rabbit hole.
Is there any last thoughts you have around this idea of using our voices with children and the importance of it that we haven't touched on? I
Carla: think, I think just choose a book that had an impact on you as a child, and you'll find it's because it had- Mm ... so much tone and intonation and just drama and, like, dramatics in it.
Start with that. If you're not somebody who's comfortable with that, start with that. Bring your love from your childhood to these children that you're working with.
Laura: Yeah. I love that. That's a great place to start. It's a great place to start. Now, I know you told us at the beginning, and I'll put the links in the show notes, but where can people find you and learn more about you or hear your podcast?
Carla: Yeah. So I'm the host of the Everything ECE podcast, and you can find me at Carla the ECE on all socials, and CarlatheECE.com, and Carla Ward on LinkedIn.
Laura: Awesome. Well, I'm so glad we finally got a chance to chat, and I look forward to talking to you again soon.
Carla: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: [00:24:00] The end. But really, that's it for today's episode of Stories That Stick, inspiring and captivating minds young and old. Remember, stories have the incredible ability to spark conversations, ignite imagination, and create lasting connections. If you loved what you heard, be sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave a five-star review.
It really does make a difference. And if you have a story to share or a topic you want me to explore, reach out to me on Instagram at Little Stories That Stick. Until next time, keep working that storytelling muscle and tell stories every day.
